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Saturday, June 11, 2005

Honoring Jefferson and Jackson

Tonight the Florida Democratic Party honors Thomas Jefferson whose brilliance and thoughtfulness made the American War for Independence a true revolution of ideas and ideals, and Andrew Jackson who was the first American President to reach out to the mass of people who were not aristocrats. Jackson achieved the greatest military victory of America's first half century as the General who defeated the British regulars at the Battle of New Orleans. In reality, it was the first time the Americans had faced a British elite force in either the War for Independence or the War of 1812. Jackson also struggled to preserve the union and by rejecting South Carolina's attempts to "nullify" the tariff of 1828, Jackson preserved the union and laid the groundwork for Abraham Lincoln a generation later to save the union from Civil War and secession.

Jefferson rejected centralized government and the decision making of a few monied elites. Together with James Madison they formed the Republican (now the Democratic) Party which advocated individual liberty and freedom of speech and the press. Jefferson's brilliance and idealism was recognized all over world and he was in fact the inspiration for many of the Revolutions that swept Europe in the 1800s. As a Democrat I feel it is important to remember the contributions of these two extrodinary men.

40 comments:

Anonymous said...

Some democrat you are, asking us to honor two slaveholders. Andrew Jackson was a horrible man who had the Native Americans moved West against their will, and many of them died on the way. Despite Jefferson's lofty words, those only applied to whites and to men. Women and African-Americans were excluded totally. I actually wish tonight's dinner were named for Bill Clinton or Franklin Roosevelt instead.

hm said...

Jefferson had an affair with a slave and yet did not free her. Some titan of linerty and equality he was.

Anonymous said...

I really wish they'd rename the dinner. It's tradition that is called J-J, but it really should be named a unity dinner or something like that.

Anonymous said...

I always find it amazing how the liberal wackos refuse to view history as it was.

In the late 18th century, African- and Native-American were not seen as equals to white property owners. To criticize two of this country's founders (Jackson wasn't really a founder, but pretty close in the grand view of history) for their inability to foresee the future is ridiculous. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it is unreasonable to attack Jefferson and Jackson for doing what was totally acceptable at the time.

As for the first post, why does this idiot see FDR as a hero when he interned Japanese Americans? Why doesn't this author hate FDR too? This is so inconsistent.

And the first post hints to sexism. Well, what about Martin Luther King and his womanizing? Does this poster hate MLK also because of his disrespect for woman?

The crazy liberals in the Democratic Party are selective in their reading of history and are really out of touch with American history and Democratic Party history. These two comments are just further proof that the Democratic Party is in horrible trouble. Misdirected and blind anger has taken over the Party, and as a Democrat, I find this fact very troubling.

Keep up the good work Kartik. You speak for the true Democrats - the Jefferson, Jackson, FDR, Truman, JFK, and Clinton Democrats.

The authors who post above speak for the Howard Dean, Michael Moore, George Soros, and Moveon.org Democrats - and they aren't real Democrats!

Mark said...

I agree with the previous comment. The crybabies that posted before are an embarrassment to the Democratic Party! Jefferson and Jackson were great men, and we should be proud to honor them.

For those who wrote against our founders, you should just join the Green Party. You're not really Dems anyways.

Kartik said...

The first three comments are exactly why the Democratic Party is on the verge of becoming irrelevent in American Politics. At a time when the party is in crisis, it should embracing the legacy of Jefferson, Jackson, Grover Cleveland, Woodrow Wilson and of course FDR, Truman, JFK and LBJ. Instead we have political correctness to an extreme which does not take into account the point in time these extrodinary men lived in, and the contributions they made to equality.

As far as Jackson being a racist it is little known in today's politically correct climate that Jackson rejected the advice of those officers around him and invited free blacks and creoles to fight alongside the white men in his regiment that defended New Orleans and won America's greatst military victory of the 19th Century. Jackson, unlike those elites that cautioned him not use blacks or creoles saw the British as the true enemy that they were. Jackson also insisted that the blacks be paid EQUALLY with the white soldiers.

Somehow this has been lost in history by the new elites, liberal do-gooders that seem to be ruining my party. I proudly call myself a liberal, but i'm much more a traditional liberal in the mold of Hubert Humphrey and Scoop Jackson who believed in an activist foriegn policy and focusing on economics rather than divisive social issues, and the rewriting of American History.

Kartik said...

Also, thank you to the two above posts for your support and understanding of the true legacy of the Democratic Party.

Anonymous said...

Had I lived in the 1800s I would not have been a Democrat. It was a party of slaveholders and loyalty to the South. Even Democratic the Presidents from the borth were pro-South: James Buchanan from PA was largely responsible for the civil war. Lincon's Republican Party was true liberal party. However sometime after the civil war the party's flipped and the Democrats became the liberal party in favor of civil rights and equality and the GOP became the defenders of segregation and the old order.

TL said...

Again, the rewriting of history. The Republicans were the party as early as the Grant administration that was easily manipulated by big business and trusts. That's why the populists of the last 1800s fit nicely into the Democratic fold after the 1896 Election.

Keep up the good work, Kartik. The true Democrats, who didn't just get active after the 2000 election are with you.

Anonymous said...

Kartik, you claim to be a Democrat, but clearly you have some very reactionary conservative views.

1- You have attacked the UN on this blog
2- You have praised Charlie Crist and attacked Scott Maddox on this blog
3- It is well known that you are working for Rod Smith who resembles an old style Dixiecrat
4-You time and time again attacked the French just like the Republicans in Congress do.
5-You belittle Europe in every post it seems

Your views on sports are interesting to read and well thought out. However, your political opinions are reactionary, simple-minded and conservative. They resemble an old line Southern Democrats views about America abroad and the domestic agenda. And you call yourself a liberal? I wonder how you fit in to the South Florida political landscape which much more urbane and worldly than the opinions you promote on your blog.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

What a stupid debate- Jefferson and Jackson were men of their times- nothing more and nothing less.

Anonymous said...

To the post that used the term "African-Americans", but then found it appropriate to use the word "Jap", you should be ashamed of yourself. If you're going to use racial slurs, be consistent. If you want to say "Jap", use the N-word next time.

Kartik said...

Jefferson-Jackson tonight was just like any other previous Democratic Party dinner. I find it amazing that while several people who visit this site were offended by my tribute to two great Americans this morning, that nobody I spoke to at the gala complained about the name. Obviously the complaints above are from nothing more than a group of fringe elements that as someone said above never had an interest in politics until after the 2000 Election because of all the conspiracy theories that they buy into. The Michael Moore wing of the Democratic Party is by far the most vocal, and the sexiest for the media but it obviously does not have a huge presence within the party among the rank in file.

Responding to an above post, I always do appreciate constructive criticism. That is what these comments are all about and often times my opinions need to be refined or my rhetoric toned down. However, the points the post made are totally laughable- criticizing the United Nations does not make me a Conservative. It is unfortunate that so many liberals who again just got involved in politics in the last five years do not understand the relationship between the United Nations and sovereign nations like the United States of America. The United Nations is a problem solving body, not a body that needs to approve military action of sovereign nation when it determines it is under threat. I did not agree with Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq, because of the larger implications on Mideast policy and the need to keep the pressure on the real sponsors of terrorism like Syria and Iran, both of whom I strongly advocate diplomatic and perhaps military options to deal with.

To say I am anti-French is a bit excessive. I do not like the behavior of the French and Germans in trying to dominate the European Union however. I do not belittle Europe in every post, but do not like the elitist and condescending attitude many Europeans have towards the rest of the world.

BMT said...

I am African-American and just returned from the dinner. I disagree with your characterization that nobody who attended the dinner is offended by the name of the dinner. I have been active with the party for sometime, and the name of the dinner has always been an issue that is offensive to many of us. The name is born more out of tradition now than anything else. The facts are that Jackson and Jefferson were slaveholders and believers in white supremacy. The facts also are that the Democratic Party which they founded is a party the vast majority of current Democrats would be uncomfortable in- it was a party that promoted states rights and segregation and that was dominated by Southerners. The Republican Party of Abraham Lincoln was a party that attempted to foster equality for all the races but was shot down after reconstruction ended.

Today’s Democratic Party is a shining example of what America should be. African-Americans and women are leading figures and are not used merely as tokens like in the GOP. I think the Democrats would do well by dishonoring Jackson and Jefferson and renaming the dinners and galas after Martin Luther King or RFK or perhaps even Bill Clinton.

Anonymous said...
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ZM said...

I was at the dinner last night and after having read this blog in morning I decided to ask random people about the name. Most people agreed with me that if we can buck traiditon it would be a good thing to change the name because the values of today's Democratic Party are not the values of Andy Jackson, period. Any way you cit it, we are a more inclusive and modern party. The GOP should stop using Lincoln also since they have very little connection to him as a party. Reagan Day would be more like it for them, Roosevelt or Kennedy Day for us.

Anonymous said...

I was there as well. A few years ago we talked seriously about changing the name since it is so offensive to so many. However, the name change wasn't made, although you will note no reference is made in the program or in other promotional materials as to Jefferson or Jackson. No History or summary of their lives is given. This is in contrast to the GOP who literally have a bust of Lincoln sitting at each table during the event they call They Lincoln Day Dinner.

Anonymous said...

I certainly hope that they do eventually change the name of the dinner. It is currently named for two people most Democratic activists would dislike. Our party is a big tent, and we promote diversity. Throughout our nation's history those of us who are homosexual have had to remain in the closet for fear of institutional reprucusions. These days we do not have that fear and can openly participate actively in the political process thanks to the 2000s Democratic Party. The dinner should be renamed for people who fought for civil rights and the American way. Perhaps Matin Luther King, Gloria Steinman, or Barbara Jordan.

Lou said...

I am fired up after last night. I am certain the Democrats are going to take back this state in 2006. We have 3 great hopefuls for Governor, all three of which are stronger than the Republicans running. We have a new party chair that has injected life into our party, and most of all we have a better grassroots network in place than the GOP could ever hope to have. We have all of the Moveon and ACT people joining us and activists from the gay community, womens groups, civil rights groups and unions. WE WILL WIN in 2006!

Anonymous said...

You people are out of your mind. Do you realize everything the last few posts have described is why we Democrats continue to lose in this state?

I am a proud conservative North Florida Democrat. You could even call me a Dixiecrat. Our party has become the most intolerant political party in contemporary American History. Liberals tout diversity, but then don't respect a diversity of viewpoints. Anybody who disagrees with them on gay marriage or affirmative action is a classified as a bigot.

Kartik has an excellent blog here and has been one of the only South Florida Democrats who has made an attempt to understand the rest of the state. He is one of the few people I have ever met from the Miami area who has actually been to all 67 counties and spent serious time in the Panhandle. He is one of the few from down there that do not make cracks about Southerners and rednecks, but instead tried to understand us and work with us. It makes me sick to see all of these posts from people who have no clue what the heritage of the Democratic Party is attacking him for honoring the legacy our once great party.

For the sake of the party you claim to represent, folks please read and understand history and do not just make biased, uninformed statements because the Michael Moores of the world do. Look at what trouble that got the Democrats into as we were swept in last year's election.

Lou said...

What is the point of a Dixiecrat? You guys should have all switched to the GOP, especially if because you guys are against gay marriage- that's an issue that the right wing believes strongly in. We Democrats are against discrimination in all forms and the attempt to use issues such as gay marriage to scare an ignorant electorate.

Mark said...

OK. This blog is filled with incoherent babble, and it really shows why Democrats can't win an election to save our lives.

First to the anonymous blogger who said he was consistent, well you obviously didn't understand my previous post. In your first post you used the terms "Japs" and "African Americans". Why do Blacks deserve the politically correct term, but to hell with the Japanese. Just use a racial slur against them? You sir, are a racist. That is why I said if you are going to say "Jap", then you should be consistent and use the N-word instead of "African American". We'd see how many people agree with you then. This party has no room for racial bigotry, whether against Blacks, Hispanics, or even the Japanese who are our fellow Americans. To use a Joseph McCarthy-type argument and state that they were likely all spies - wow! That's just ludicrious and doesn't even deserve a response.

I encourage most of you to pick up a book on Civil War history and read it! It seems like most of the liberals on this page don't know their history. Let me guess, you probably actually think the Civil War was fought over slavery. Haha! That's the BS we teach in school, because the north won and they got to rewrite history. It's a shame that more people don't learn the southern perspective. Unfortunately, American schools teach the Civil War like Fox reports the news - only one side allowed.

And gay marriage? When did the Democratic Party endorse gay marriage? I'll tell you - it never did. Every poll that I see shows that the majority of Democrats are against gay marriage. Instead of the last poster making Bush-type comments, "You're with me, or you're against me" on gay marriage, he should work with the "Dixiecrats" to do more to teach people the facts of the issue. A lot of people would like to see equal rights for all Floridians first, then see if marriage would be a possibility in the future.

It never ceases to amaze me the prejudices and bigotry in the Democratic Party. This is why more minorities are moving to the Republicans. We act like we're inclusive, but read these comments. We are not inclusive. The Democrats are just like Bush - it's either our way or the highway.

Ralph Nader is the ideal liberal who took that position and look what it has done for this country. You ultral-libs are just a bunch of Naders and you are destroying the oldest political party. Shame on you!

Kartik said...

Many of today's Democratic activists are vocal and whiny, with little knowledge of events that preceded the Bush years. The same group that criticized Bush for invading Iraq without UN authority failed to realize that Clinton had in both 1995 and 1999 sent US troops to the Balkans without a UN resolution, and in fact Russia would have vetoed any resolution the US advanced regarding Milosevic and Serbia. Clinton nonetheless took strong action in America's interest,, not the interest of some multinational organization. The anti war protesters that dominate the debate in today's Democratic Party did not understand this reality and the proper role of the UN.

Gay marriage is an issue the vast majority of the American public disagrees with. To paint the vast majoirty of the people with the brush of being "biggots."

If the Democratic Party is to survive we must take Mark's advice and undertand history both of our party and of our nation.Read history and put it in perspective, not just get the view of some guilty liberal who feels America is terrible place. I'm a liberal and I love America, and feel while we have made mistakes as a nation, our history is lot more honorable and great deal fairer than that of any other western nation.

Anonymous said...

Gay marriage and gay adoption are this generation's civil rights issues. Homosexuals throughout the nation today face the same discrimination that African-Americans did in the south prior to the 1960s, and the struggle is the same. Matthew Shepard's death for many of us was similar to the murder of Emmitt Till in 1955. Had public officials been so poll driven the late 1950s and early 1960s as they are now, civil rights would have never happened. All the gay and lesbian activists want is to be treated fairly and equally with everyone else. Thankfully, in the Democratic Party equality not political expediency is the rule.

Also you state that in 1995 and 1999 Clinton bypassed the UN. He did not invade an indpendent nation but instead went into a nation that had been invaded.

Anonymous said...

Everyone:

This debate is geeting out of control. Katik's original post is simply about honoring two individuals who are cosidered the "Founders of The Democratic Party"

The Democratic Party throughout our great nation have honored these two great Presidents for their contributions to building our country in our early stages of Democracy.

IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON FROM THIS DEBATE AND FOCUS ON THE FUTURE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!

WE NEED TO FOCUS ON WINNING BACK THE SOUTH!!!

Anonymous said...

It is amazing that you people make intolerant statements and then want us to move on and not talk about the issues of civil rights in front of us. Discrimination against Homosexuals is being institutionalized and affirmed by law no different than Jim Crow and yet all of you ask us to be silent. WE SHALL OVERCOME!

Anonymous said...

This thread is exactly why I do not call myself a liberal. If you don't like Kartik's point of view, discuss these issues with facts and articulate points. If you still insist on attacking those of us who happen to share his political philosphy and understand where the Democratic Party needs to go, take your views and complaints to the moveon.org site so some other left wing rag. WE NEED TO WIN ELECTIONS, AND UNITE THE COUNTRY, NOT REWRITE HISTORY AND CONDEM ANYONE WHO HAS A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW.

I don't always agree with Kartik, but love this website and the opinions he expresses and the analysis he gives us on key issues of the day. If you don't like this website, don't visit.

Anonymous said...

I a tired of being told by so-called leaders in MY party to be quiet. Being quiet us what has lost us elections. Great movements take courage and often times involve taking your lumps early on. Here is to a great future for a Great activist Democratic party!

Lou said...

My final post on this site:

For those above who said we should focus on winning back the South, if the Democrats do win back the South clearly it is a party many of us will not want to be a part of. Winning "back" the South means race baiting, gay baiting and worst of all undermining the Seperation of Church and State that is in the Consititution. If you insist on moving the Democrats to the right, a third party bigger than the party we leave will form and will carry the day.

Anonymous said...

I have a strong disaggreement with several of the posts. The Democratic Party will be a permanent minority with that type of mentality. "Winning Back The South" is critical to the future success of our Party. Frankly, a great a majority of Southerners who agree with on the bread and butter issues have left our party because the feel that we no longer ""respect"" their personal beliefs and values. The Democratic Party stands for diversity and tolerence. I would suggest that people need to start respecting other peoples beliefs!!

Anonymous said...

What are the bread and butter issues you describe as a vital to the South. Guns and anti-choice? So-called Defense of Marriage? A diverse political party such as ours has no common ground with the religious wackos in the South.

Kartik said...

Southerners have been part of the bedrock of the Democratic Party since its foundation. The GOP has long been the party of wall street, northern bankers and other industrial interests in the North.

The South's bread and butter issues are economic in nature and the Democrats need the South and the South needs the Democrats, so why do Democratic actvists in Florida many of whom it seems are from Northern Republican families who do not understand the heritage of our party continue to misrepresent and misunderstand both the history and people of South and the history and base of our party?

Lou said...

You sir are yourself a racist to claim that the South is the bedrock of the Democratic Party. An area over run with the KKK and Aryan Nation is not an area we need.

Anonymous said...

Kartik is not a racist!!! You owe him an apology for your comments!! It is clear that you do not understand the South or the history of the Democratic Party!

You might also want to check your history. The KKK happened to have been very strong in the Midwest as well. There are the past!!!

Maybe you should drive through the South and get to know some of the proud Southerners that you are attacking. Then you may learn what they are really like!

Lou said...

He may not be a racist but then again he wants to reach out to the racists to win elections which makes him no better in my book.

Anonymous said...

What do you have against the South? Your statements show ingnorance and a complete lack of understanding about the South.

Anonymous said...

Lou,

Do you realize it is the Northern elite who have moved the Democrats away from the people. And Lou, do you realize race relations are much worse in Chicago, New York, Boston and Detroit than in any of the Southern cities?

Why is it that Atlanta is seen as the model city relating to racial interaction. You are ignorant and arrogant.

Lou said...

It is the Northerners who are educated and the Southerners who are racists.

Jill said...

Lou,

You are totally off your rocker. I'm a liberal female Democrat, one of the Special Interest Group types that Kartik describes (Union leader) and veen though I am not from Florida I understand what your party is going through up there. We are going through it also here in DC. We need to build coalitions to win for a change. Suck it up and work with the Southerners, Lou or don't pretend to be a party leader.

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I am the host of the Major League Soccer Talk and EPL Talk Podcasts and am frequent guest on other (world) football shows. I am also the publisher of various other websites including this one. I work in public/government relations in addition to my soccer work and have a keen interest in history, politics, aviation, travel,and the world around us.

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